Islamophobes are those who point out that an insult to Islam gets the death penalty. Islamists who point out the same thing are called practitioners of true Islam.
And just who is the bigger problem here?
From Translating Jihad Jan 26
Fatwa: "Whoever Insults One of These Four Things, Whether in Jest or Sincerity, Has Become an Infidel and Must Be Killed"
No, the four things are not the four Gospels, and the author of this fatwa is not a right-wing Evangelical minister. The four things, of course, are Allah, Muhammad, the Qur'an, and Islam, and this is yet another offering from the Religion of Peace and Tolerance (shocker!). The author of this fatwa, which comes from the Islamic Fatwa Council of Jerusalem, presided over by Shaykh Khalid Ghanayim, asserts that this is not only his opinion, but also the opinion of the Qur'an, the sunnah, and the consensus of Islamic scholars, and backs all of that up with references from each source. Stay tuned for more from me on this topic in the coming days, as I have quite a bit of material to translate in relation to this. (See the original Arabic here.)
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And just who is the bigger problem here?
From Translating Jihad Jan 26
Fatwa: "Whoever Insults One of These Four Things, Whether in Jest or Sincerity, Has Become an Infidel and Must Be Killed"
No, the four things are not the four Gospels, and the author of this fatwa is not a right-wing Evangelical minister. The four things, of course, are Allah, Muhammad, the Qur'an, and Islam, and this is yet another offering from the Religion of Peace and Tolerance (shocker!). The author of this fatwa, which comes from the Islamic Fatwa Council of Jerusalem, presided over by Shaykh Khalid Ghanayim, asserts that this is not only his opinion, but also the opinion of the Qur'an, the sunnah, and the consensus of Islamic scholars, and backs all of that up with references from each source. Stay tuned for more from me on this topic in the coming days, as I have quite a bit of material to translate in relation to this. (See the original Arabic here.)
Q: What is the ruling on one who insults the divine, the Prophet (peace be upon him), the Noble Qur'an, and Islam?
Date: 29 Nov 2009
Fatwa No: 349
In the name of Allah the most merciful,
Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the two worlds, and peace be upon our lord Muhammad, and on his family and companions.
Whoever insults one of these four things, whether in jest or sincerity, has become an infidel and must be killed. This is what is shown in the text of the book [i.e. the Qur'an], and the sunnah, and all scholars (are in agreement) with it.
1 - The book
The Most High said: "If they violate their oaths after pledging to keep their covenants, and attack your religion, you may fight the leaders of paganism - you are no longer bound by your covenant with them - that they may refrain" (Qur'an 9:12). The spot that witnesses to the infidelity of insulting them, or insulting one of them, is the saying of the Most High, "...and attack your religion..."
2 - The sunnah
Abu Dawud and al-Nasa'i, from Ibn-'Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him), related that a blind man had a slave-mother [a slave who bore children for him] who used to abuse the Prophet (peace be upon him) and disparage him. He [i.e. the blind man] forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace be upon him) and abuse him. So he [the blind man] took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace be upon him) was informed about it...
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7 comments:
"Islamophobes are those who point out that an insult to Islam gets the death penalty". No, Islamaphobes are people who go out of their way to find negative things about Islam - like the fact that it officially prescribes death for blasphemy - without - a. seeing if the same is true of any other religion, and b. looking for positive features of Islam too.
No Jay, a phobia is an irrational fear of something not understood. I, as do many people, understand Islam all too well, and believe Islam, as defined today by it's leaders and practiced by some Muslims, is a problem. The suggestion that I find comparative examples in other religions is a fallacy, no other religion today holds the same tenets as Islam. Those who define Christianity today DO NOT call for the conversion, sunjugation or death for those who do not believe in Christ. Those who define Judaism DO NOT advocate the murder of children, women and non-Jews as policy. The Catholic church DOES NOT call for the killing or enslavement of those who refuse to accept the trinity. Islam is the only religion which demands of non-Muslims that they convert, become a dhimmi or die, it is as simple as that. Show how any respected Islamic cleric, scholar, imam, mullah or ayatollah, or any accepted school of islamic jurisprudence tells Muslims that they must live in peace with the rest of the world on an indefinite basis, or that women are equal to men, or that conversion out of Islam is not an automatic death penalty. You claim I do not talk about the positives of islam. OK, what are they? Archetecture? Poetry? Art? There is no science in the Islamic world, nor enlightened pursuits, nor even a manufacturing infrastructure with which to build on. The Islamic world is stuck in the 7th century, and we all suffer for it, especially Muslims.
Let me ask you this: does Islam demand death for blasphemy, or not? You know it does, yet insist on a religious relativism which only shows up the ignorance of Islamic doctrine, texts and tenets you claim you know so much about. I challenge you, Jay to prove your point. You cannot, unless you want to keep engaging in relativism and lies.
"Islam as defined today by its leaders and practised by some Muslims is a problem" says Barry. At least he says 'some Muslims' - obviously, the vast majority of Muslims in the world don't do what it says in the Koran. And Jews don't do what it says in the Torah, etc.. Jesus interrupted a bunch of Jews stoning a woman to death - that was 2,000 years ago, and since then they've abandoned much of their holy books (apart from the stuff about gentiles being inferior, but let's not dwell on that). But who are the leaders of Islam? With Catholicism, its easy - it has one leader. With Islam, it's more ambiguous. It is true that the Catholic church has retreated from its violent past. It is also true that most of the Muslim world doesn't take the Koran literally. With those that do, the best approach is a less aggressive one than the one you advocate.
Which violent past are you speaking of Mr. Knott, do you mean the First Crusade? As you well know that first Crusade (and all subsequent Crusades) were in response to Muslims occupying the Holy Land, Muslims preventing Christians from making pilgrimages to the Holy Land, Muslims slaughtering the inhabitants of the Holy Land, Muslims preventing Christians and Jews from practicing their religion, and Islam reducing these other monotheistic religions to dhimmi status. All of this nasty, persecutory, over reaction of "violent" Christians happened some 400 plus years AFTER Muslims first occupied the Holy Land by FORCE and VIOLENCE and reduced everyone (except Muslims) to dhimmitude. As for other religions demanding the violent overthrow of dissimilar religions: no other religion, not Christians, Jews, Buddhists, or Hindus are commanded by their holy men, religious tenets, or by their sacred writings and/or holy books, to murder those who do not accept their particular religion. Islam can not just be one of many religions. Quran said:
9:33 "He has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the Religion of Truth (Islam) to make it superior over all religions".
Qur'an 8:39 "So fight them until all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)".
Qur'an 3:85 "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Surrender), never will it be accepted of him".
Mohammed said:
Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror".
Ishaq:326 "The earth was made a place for me to clean (of non Muslims)".
Ishaq:327 "A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion".
Omar M. Ahmad, founder of CAIR said in 2005:
"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant" he said. "The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America , and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth," he said. I haven't noticed the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Dali Lama issuing similar statements.
By the way, why aren't you commenting on the latest fatwa from Islamic scholars, you should know this, the one allowing child marriages, that is allowing little, prepubescent girls girls to be married and raped by their "husbands". Somehow a little girl of 8 married to a 55 year old, strikes me as demented and perverse. Obviously not to you my friend.
Finally, one need not "go out of their way to find negative things about Islam". Unfortunately those "negative things" are reported on every day in newspapers, on radio, in magazines, and on television broadcasts from around the world (see "Oregon Live", Monday, January 24, 2011: "MOSCOW -- An explosion ripped through the international arrivals hall at Moscow's busiest airport on Monday, killing 31 people and wounding about 130, officials said. The Russian president called it a terror attack... Although there have been repeated attacks on the Moscow subway and on Russian trains - blamed on Chechen militants - the bombing Monday was the first involving a Russian airport since 2004. Twin blasts in the subway last March killed 39 people and wounded more than 60 people. Chechen rebel leader Doku Umarov claimed responsibility for that attack, warning Russian leaders that "the war is coming to their cities".
No Mr. Knott, no one has to "dig" for information of this type.
What I find fascinating Mr. Knott, is that you are offended that this website reports these stories (which are verified as fact), but not offended by the atrocities committed and contained IN these stories, e.g... you protest not about childhood rape fatwas, FGM, honor killings, or suicide bombers, just that this website reports these "negative things". Amazing!
"Which violent past... do you mean the First Crusade?" says so-called 'Christian' lady. I meant when Catholics burned Protestants at the stake, but there were attacks on Orthodox, Jews and Muslims too. Of course I'm 'offended' by bombings etc. - but Americans are aware of these aspects of Islam, so I don't need to add to them. This nation has killed around a million civilians in the Muslim world since 9/11. The crusades are still with us.
"This nation has killed around a million civilians in the Muslim world since 9/11"
Islam has murdered about 270 Million worldwide since 622AD.
Islamists and jihadists have committed 16,726 attacks against non-Muslims since 9-11.
Seems a bit one-sided, Jay.
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